[Oz-mooney]Fuel at YLEC (was Mid Air Collision at Bankstown)

Sun Dec 21 06:42:24 PST 2008

Geoff and everyone else who flys east/west. Please be aware that Avgas
is no longer available at YLEC. It is a hell of a shame and the end of
an era. It nearly spoiled our day on our last trip home from Brisbane.
We diverted to YTIB where we paid $2.40 a litre and were glad of the
opportunity.

Brian

________________________________

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au
[mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Geoff Harris
Sent: Saturday, 20 December 2008 2:33 PM
To: Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List
Subject: Re: [Oz-mooney] Mid Air Collision at Bankstown

I got my licence in the early 80's at Cooranbong.  In those days landing
in Sydney was part of your nav training.  It was the most unusual
experience coming over the fence at full throttle then landing before
the first taxiway.  I later went on the do it in a Cherokee I owned on
my birthday (I gave myself a present).  I enjoyed it as much as the
first.

I am flying Kalgoorlie to Sydney tomorrow, after 10hrs of flying I am
not relishing the idea of a YSBK landing, but SY is not really an
option.

Geoff

NWF

2008/12/20 Stephen Gale <stephen at elektrika.com.au>

Hey folks,  

I personally hate landing at Bankstown for numerous reasons, my safety
being one of them.

Does anyone know the tower, landing and parking charges at SY? It is
something I feel a need to do in my life, and this monday might be that
day...

Cheers,

Steve 

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Peter Wordsworth
<peterwordsworth at gmail.com> wrote:

Peter,

Option #6 has great merit. It would allow for alerted see and avoid
prior to reaching a GAAP inbound reporting point. At the moment there is
nothing. Perhaps a radio call 5 miles prior to a GAAP inbound reporting
point on a special frequency would be appropriate.

Your idea of radar assistance - that would be nice, but this is
Australia where cost recovery reigns supreme. The cost of one dedicated
Radar controller would probably exceed $1M per year by the time the bean
counters got involved! On the other hand this might only add a further
$5-$10 or so per approach so may be worth considering.

In the USA , if I understand it correctly, the FAA actually has a
responsibility to foster general aviation and a small proportion of the
revenue generated by the airlines is set aside to make this happen.
Hence no landing charges or other navigation fees.

Cheers
Peter W

2008/12/20 Peter Rejto <peter.rejto at oberlin.edu>

I hesitate to post yet another idea. (#6) In no way do I want to create
the impression that just because I have most of my flying experience in
the USA that I therefore think it is the "only" way to do things. It
isn't (!) and I could list a few things done here in Australia that I
wish would be adopted over there. So I hope that my comments will be
taken only as a desire to find a safe and workable solution to a complex
and entrenched problem at GAAP airports. (The cynic in me has now
remnamed GAAP to mean General Aviation Accident Point.)

#6. Given that CTAF-R exists and is designed to give situational
awareness to traffic converging towards a point ( an airport) would it
not make sense to adopt a CTAF-R procedure for aircraft converging
towards an inbound reporting point? A common frequency for inbound and
outbound VFR traffic could be established and mandated to be used from
some (to be determined) distance from YSBK. Aircraft would then report
distance, altitude and ETA to the inbound reporting fix. After that
point aircraft would go to the tower frequency. Inbound aircraft would
squawk 1201, and outbound 1202.

A potential issue with this idea is that aircraft on the special freq.
would not be listening to SYD Radar, but having the squawk of 1201 or
1202 would inform the controller of the aircraft's intentions. Aircraft
with 2 radios could monitor SYD Radar in any case. I don't see this
costing much, and it would allow inbound planes the ability to
communicate directly with each other without impinging on SYD Radar freq
- just as we do at any uncontrolled airport.

What I am proposing is very similar to a procedure in the LA basin where
it is possible to fly - in a VFR corridor - directly over LAX without
speaking to any controller. Northwest and southeast bound traffic squawk
1201 and fly specific altitudes based on direction, and there is a
requirement to broadcast entering and exiting the corridor on a specific
common frequency. I've flown the corridor probably 50+ times with never
a problem, and it links two major GA airports....Santa Monica  and
Torrance. 

Food for thought?

Peter R.

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-- 
Stephen Gale
Elektrika Pty Ltd
10/30 Wangaratta St, Richmond, 3121
ph 0412035842

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-- 
Geoff Harris
Director
PPAT - Energy Excellence Consultants
0419 691 452
(08) 9382 3114

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