[Oz-mooney] LAHSO (was RE: Sydney Airport Charges)

Mon Dec 22 19:28:07 PST 2008

Picture of the belly  and ATC  transcript of that incident here
http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/fsa_atsb/pdf/2000/fsa_0700.pdf

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From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au
[mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Paul Baishont
Sent: Tuesday, 23 December 2008 10:49
To: 'Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List'
Subject: RE: [Oz-mooney] LAHSO (was RE: Sydney Airport Charges)

Skip, the photo of the belly of the B727 was just as impressive!

Paul

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au
[mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Skip Hodgson
Sent: Tuesday, 23 December 2008 8:08 AM
To: Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List
Subject: Re: [Oz-mooney] LAHSO (was RE: Sydney Airport Charges)

Peter,  the Aussies get nervous about things like the attached photo.  This
shot was taken on 30 Jan 1971 at Sydney the day after a little
"misunderstanding" at the intersection of 34 and 25.  Fortunately the guy
that went over the top was wearing brown trousers.  After that they didn't
trust Canadians much.

Skip

Peter Rejto wrote: 

Sorry...that last message sent itself by accident!

As I was trying to say, I never cease to be amazed at the layers of
complications certain actions in aviation take on here in Australia. LAHSO
seemed to be a rather routine request from controllers I dealt with, and
pretty much everyone was assumed to be capable of this (in the USA). I think
the request was usually made as a question: "1CM are you capable of LAHSO
prior to crossing runway x?" I never heard anyone answer "no."

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Michael  <mailto:mgkeating at bigpond.com> Keating 

To: 'Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation  <mailto:oz-mooney at mooney.org.au>
List' 

Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:30 PM

Subject: RE: [Oz-mooney] LAHSO (was RE: Sydney Airport Charges)

Brian,

I was also asked the same question at Darwin.

To be LAHSO approved you have to have the endorsement, as per Slip's
comments, but the controllers and the airport also has to be LAHSO approved.
There are physical requirements at the airports ie flashing lights etc and
Regulatory requirements for the controllers. Your aircraft also has to be on
the Australian Register!  In Rocky they use to clear us to land on 04 but
then ask us to hold sort of the 15-33 runway if we were able (knowing full
well we cold) It was a pseudo LAHSO I guess but not given before the wheels
touched the pavement. They have stopped doing it now though. I am sure Paul
Baishont can come in with more info if needed but as Skip say there is a
whole section  about it in the CAO's

Cheers

Michael Keating 

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au
[mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Skip Hodgson
Sent: Monday, 22 December 2008 6:29 PM
To: Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List
Subject: Re: [Oz-mooney] LAHSO (was RE: Sydney Airport Charges)

Brian,  this stuff is all explained in AIP - ENR 1.1 para 45 and following.

"Active" means you agree to hold short of an intersection when landing.
"Passive" means somebody else is holding short of an intersection and you
are aware of that and are planning to roll through the intersection.  Any
Australian Category A,B and C aircraft can be "Passive" if the pilot agrees.
You can only be "Active" if you have a log book endorsement by a CASA FOI or
by any flight instructor who himself has LAHSO approval (it is a circular
definition - similar to recursive programming - you'd love it).

There is a huge chunk in CAO section 40.0.4 showing the requirements to be
met.  Among other things you have to be able to notice if the runway is wet
and you have to look at the windsock and you have to  be able to stop in the
calculated rwy length without using reverse thrust and you have to comply
with local noise abatement and curfew rules!!  If things are pear-shaped you
have to promptly fly a missed approach but there is no explanation in the
CAO about what would happen if both aircraft flew the missed approach
together.  I guess similar to the 2RN business the other day.

Regards
Skip

Brian Dunstan wrote: 

Paul,

What is required for LAHSO approval? I am often asked and I always tell them
I am not LAHSO approved, even though it seems ridiculous when there are
literally kilometres of runway before the intersection.

I recently heard pilots at Darwin replying that they were "Passive LASO". I
presume that means they are not approved but can land and hold short. I have
not used it because I am not positive what it means or if it makes any
difference.

I would like to say I was LASO approved just to help with the traffic flow.
What would be required?

Brian

  _____  

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au
[mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Paul Baishont
Sent: Sunday, 21 December 2008 6:22 PM
To: 'Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List'
Subject: [Oz-mooney] RE: Sydney Airport Charges

Skip/Steve,

The reason I included the terms and conditions was because of some of the
items that you have pointed out.  I have noticed a few airports around
requiring $10M public liability insurance but the $25M these folks require
is a new high.  I noticed the pre-approval forms.

I forgot to mention the ATC requirements in ERSA (it was early in the
morning and I was recovering from reading the Sydney Airport T&C)!  I
imagine the first question that will be asked will be your LAHSO status.
Getting a slot without LAHSO approval in the busier periods might be
interesting.

Regards,

Paul

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au
[mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Stephen Gale
Sent: Sunday, 21 December 2008 2:27 PM
To: Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List
Subject: Re: [Oz-mooney] RE: Sydney Airport Charges

Its not for the faint hearted, is it!

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 1:07 PM, Skip Hodgson <skiphod at ozemail.com.au>
wrote:

I took a few minutes to read this stuff.

Insurance Requirement (minimum) 25 million dollars liability

Landing Charge $55
TakeOff Charge  $55
(If you are off-peak they "MAY consider granting a %10 discount")

You are supposed to contact the airport management to negotiate all this.
You also have to supply credit and insurance details, according to the
"Terms and Conditions"

Parking  $66 per calendar day (overnight is presumably two days)
Short Term Parking   $38.50 per 15 minutes

Tower Charges (TNC)  $21.00  

Don't forget to book an "Arrival Slot" with ATC on 1800 020 626 at least 60
minutes before departure.  These will be allocated from an available pool so
you may not get what you want.  It may also get changed by Central Traffic
Management System for their own reasons.  Read the ERSA.

Have Fun,
Skip

Paul Baishont wrote: 

G'day Steve,

I'm with you and Sydney Airport is one of those things that I feel that I
would like to do sometime.  Flew into 'Tulla a few times many years ago
before the days of airport and airways charges.  If you do fly into Sydney
let me know about the experience.

The Sydney airport use terms and conditions:

http://www.sydneyairport.com.au/NR/rdonlyres/066B3DD2-594F-4F48-805A-AD13252
5BD48/0/COUv2151January2008.pdf

The landing charges.

http://www.sydneyairport.com.au/NR/rdonlyres/F87F651A-0CA5-4936-B0AB-51C617E
CA062/0/TableofChargesAllAirlines1July2008.pdf

The Airsevices Australia charges can be calculated at:

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/pilotcentre/avcharge/Arrivalcostings.asp

Regards,

Paul

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au
[mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Stephen Gale
Sent: Saturday, 20 December 2008 2:42 PM
To: Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List
Subject: Re: [Oz-mooney] Mid Air Collision at Bankstown

Hey folks, 

I personally hate landing at Bankstown for numerous reasons, my safety being
one of them.

Does anyone know the tower, landing and parking charges at SY? It is
something I feel a need to do in my life, and this monday might be that
day...

Cheers,

Steve

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-- 
Stephen Gale
Elektrika Pty Ltd
10/30 Wangaratta St, Richmond, 3121
ph 0412035842

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