[Oz-mooney] LAHSO (was RE: Sydney Airport Charges)

Tue Dec 23 21:23:37 PST 2008

Interesting Greg ... As a result of this incident, my father was late for the wedding of my mothers sister as he was en-route Albury to Adelaide via Sydney. I was only 9 at the time but remember it well - he arrived as we were walking out of the church!

Regards,

Andrew Kotzur
Modern Engineering and Construction
Ph ++ 61 (0) 2 6029 4700
Fx ++ 61 (0) 2 6029 2307
www.kotzur.com

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au [mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Greg Manzie
Sent: Tuesday, 23 December 2008 11:30 PM
To: 'Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List'
Subject: RE: [Oz-mooney] LAHSO (was RE: Sydney Airport Charges)

My brother's flight from Sydney to Brisbane was delayed by this little "coming together"...
He was on his way home on leave after completing his National Service training at Kapooka prior to a posting to Vietnam. Fortunately never made it due to Gough's election! The only time my mother ever voted Labor.
Cheers
Greg Manzie

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au [mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Skip Hodgson
Sent: Tuesday, 23 December 2008 8:38 AM
To: Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List
Subject: Re: [Oz-mooney] LAHSO (was RE: Sydney Airport Charges)

Peter,  the Aussies get nervous about things like the attached photo.  This shot was taken on 30 Jan 1971 at Sydney the day after a little "misunderstanding" at the intersection of 34 and 25.  Fortunately the guy that went over the top was wearing brown trousers.  After that they didn't trust Canadians much.

Skip

Peter Rejto wrote:
Sorry...that last message sent itself by accident!

As I was trying to say, I never cease to be amazed at the layers of complications certain actions in aviation take on here in Australia. LAHSO seemed to be a rather routine request from controllers I dealt with, and pretty much everyone was assumed to be capable of this (in the USA). I think the request was usually made as a question: "1CM are you capable of LAHSO prior to crossing runway x?" I never heard anyone answer "no."
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Keating<mailto:mgkeating at bigpond.com>
To: 'Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List'<mailto:oz-mooney at mooney.org.au>
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Oz-mooney] LAHSO (was RE: Sydney Airport Charges)

Brian,
I was also asked the same question at Darwin.
To be LAHSO approved you have to have the endorsement, as per Slip's comments, but the controllers and the airport also has to be LAHSO approved. There are physical requirements at the airports ie flashing lights etc and Regulatory requirements for the controllers. Your aircraft also has to be on the Australian Register!  In Rocky they use to clear us to land on 04 but then ask us to hold sort of the 15-33 runway if we were able (knowing full well we cold) It was a pseudo LAHSO I guess but not given before the wheels touched the pavement. They have stopped doing it now though. I am sure Paul Baishont can come in with more info if needed but as Skip say there is a whole section  about it in the CAO's
Cheers
Michael Keating

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au<mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au> [mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Skip Hodgson
Sent: Monday, 22 December 2008 6:29 PM
To: Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List
Subject: Re: [Oz-mooney] LAHSO (was RE: Sydney Airport Charges)

Brian,  this stuff is all explained in AIP - ENR 1.1 para 45 and following.

"Active" means you agree to hold short of an intersection when landing.  "Passive" means somebody else is holding short of an intersection and you are aware of that and are planning to roll through the intersection.  Any Australian Category A,B and C aircraft can be "Passive" if the pilot agrees.  You can only be "Active" if you have a log book endorsement by a CASA FOI or by any flight instructor who himself has LAHSO approval (it is a circular definition - similar to recursive programming - you'd love it).

There is a huge chunk in CAO section 40.0.4 showing the requirements to be met.  Among other things you have to be able to notice if the runway is wet and you have to look at the windsock and you have to  be able to stop in the calculated rwy length without using reverse thrust and you have to comply with local noise abatement and curfew rules!!  If things are pear-shaped you have to promptly fly a missed approach but there is no explanation in the CAO about what would happen if both aircraft flew the missed approach together.  I guess similar to the 2RN business the other day.

Regards
Skip

Brian Dunstan wrote:
Paul,

What is required for LAHSO approval? I am often asked and I always tell them I am not LAHSO approved, even though it seems ridiculous when there are literally kilometres of runway before the intersection.

I recently heard pilots at Darwin replying that they were "Passive LASO". I presume that means they are not approved but can land and hold short. I have not used it because I am not positive what it means or if it makes any difference.

I would like to say I was LASO approved just to help with the traffic flow. What would be required?

Brian

________________________________
From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au<mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au> [mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Paul Baishont
Sent: Sunday, 21 December 2008 6:22 PM
To: 'Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List'
Subject: [Oz-mooney] RE: Sydney Airport Charges

Skip/Steve,

The reason I included the terms and conditions was because of some of the items that you have pointed out.  I have noticed a few airports around requiring $10M public liability insurance but the $25M these folks require is a new high.  I noticed the pre-approval forms.

I forgot to mention the ATC requirements in ERSA (it was early in the morning and I was recovering from reading the Sydney Airport T&C)!  I  imagine the first question that will be asked will be your LAHSO status.  Getting a slot without LAHSO approval in the busier periods might be interesting.

Regards,
Paul

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au<mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au> [mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Stephen Gale
Sent: Sunday, 21 December 2008 2:27 PM
To: Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List
Subject: Re: [Oz-mooney] RE: Sydney Airport Charges

Its not for the faint hearted, is it!
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 1:07 PM, Skip Hodgson <skiphod at ozemail.com.au<mailto:skiphod at ozemail.com.au>> wrote:
I took a few minutes to read this stuff.

Insurance Requirement (minimum) 25 million dollars liability

Landing Charge $55
TakeOff Charge  $55
(If you are off-peak they "MAY consider granting a %10 discount")

You are supposed to contact the airport management to negotiate all this.  You also have to supply credit and insurance details, according to the "Terms and Conditions"

Parking  $66 per calendar day (overnight is presumably two days)
Short Term Parking   $38.50 per 15 minutes

Tower Charges (TNC)  $21.00

Don't forget to book an "Arrival Slot" with ATC on 1800 020 626 at least 60 minutes before departure.  These will be allocated from an available pool so you may not get what you want.  It may also get changed by Central Traffic Management System for their own reasons.  Read the ERSA.

Have Fun,
Skip

Paul Baishont wrote:

G'day Steve,

I'm with you and Sydney Airport is one of those things that I feel that I would like to do sometime.  Flew into 'Tulla a few times many years ago before the days of airport and airways charges.  If you do fly into Sydney let me know about the experience.

The Sydney airport use terms and conditions:

http://www.sydneyairport.com.au/NR/rdonlyres/066B3DD2-594F-4F48-805A-AD132525BD48/0/COUv2151January2008.pdf

The landing charges.

http://www.sydneyairport.com.au/NR/rdonlyres/F87F651A-0CA5-4936-B0AB-51C617ECA062/0/TableofChargesAllAirlines1July2008.pdf

The Airsevices Australia charges can be calculated at:

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/pilotcentre/avcharge/Arrivalcostings.asp

Regards,

Paul

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au<mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au> [mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Stephen Gale
Sent: Saturday, 20 December 2008 2:42 PM
To: Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List
Subject: Re: [Oz-mooney] Mid Air Collision at Bankstown

Hey folks,

I personally hate landing at Bankstown for numerous reasons, my safety being one of them.

Does anyone know the tower, landing and parking charges at SY? It is something I feel a need to do in my life, and this monday might be that day...

Cheers,

Steve

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--
Stephen Gale
Elektrika Pty Ltd
10/30 Wangaratta St, Richmond, 3121
ph 0412035842

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