[Oz-mooney] (no subject)

[T i m Hamilton]

Thanks Don, Will go out and try this, as instructed. Will be interesting
what the results will be - T i m.

 

  _____  

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au
[mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Don Rowling
Sent: Sunday, 6 January 2008 8:43 AM
To: 'Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List'
Subject: [Oz-mooney] (no subject)

 

Moonites.

The following was taken from the last Mooney forum.

The altitude loss of approx 750 feet stated herein was confirmed by John
Chesbrough and Roger Weeks some years ago in a Mooney.

Something to remember or practice when you have the opportunity with an
instructor.

 

Many a pilot has spun in trying to return to the airport following an engine
loss on t/o when at a too low an altitude.

Happy New Year to all.

Don

 

 

 

Message: 1

Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:54:01 -0800

From: "Mark Miller" <millerinsmark at verizon.net>

Subject: RE: The Impossible Turn

To: "'Gabriel Schlumberger'" <gabriel at schlumberger.org>,    "'Aviation

      discussion list for topics specific to Mooney aircraft and  aviation'"

      <mooney-tech at aviating.com>

Message-ID:

 
<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAM2OX7KsPHpMqe9wNftHSvTCgAAAEAAAAO4+rXUd7UpCoA/9eLHG
3SIBAAAAAA==@verizon.net>

      

Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="us-ascii"

 

Great topic Gabriel! There was an excellent article in Aviation Safety
Magazine some 5 years ago or so on this subject. It discussed all scenarios
of the impossible turn and then provided an exercise for the readers to
practice at some safe altitude, say 3000' agl. Basically it went something
like this. Pick an altitude and heading at a speed below your take off speed
while in take off configuration. Do a simulated take off power on and climb.

Cut the power after reaching your climb speed in your climb attitude to
simulate an engine out condition during take off and climb out. Record your
altitude. Wait a full 4 seconds (it takes 3 to 4 seconds to figure out that
yes, you really do have a problem and it is now happening to you and not the
other guy - this is according to actual test data). Then trim to best glide
while turning left 270 degrees and then right 90 degrees and land 180
degrees from your take off heading using coordinated standard rate turns.

Record the differences in altitude. That is all there is to it. 

 

 

 

I did this with a safety pilot and determine 750' was the altitude for the
impossible turn. This is the altitude I try to remember to add to the
airport agl on every take off for my "impossible turn".

 

 

 

The safety pilot and I tried steeper banked turns including even a chandelle
(the chandelle is a steep turn learned during your commercial rating). Yes,
we found that we could do it with less altitude, but in an emergency, with
gyros going out, and everything else getting very busy all of a sudden, is
performing a really steep turn really, safe? 

 

 

 

For my personal limit, 750' is the altitude for the impossible turn for me
based on practice data after several repeat attempts. This is based on my
skill level while flying my own airplane; others may determine a different
altitude for the impossible turn personal limits. If I was at 700' or 725'

when the engine quite, I would still most likely make the impossible turn
(depending on the actual airport surroundings) because the landing would
still end up at the airport, on the flat surface the airport environment
provides and I may just end up going off of the runway. The airport
environments are usually in a clear flat area and often with emergency crews
standing by.

 

 

 

This is something everyone should try in order to establish their own limits
based on their skills in the aircraft they fly most often. As an added
bonus, it is just plane fun! 

 

 

 

Note also that doing a simple 180 degree turn does not put you back on the
runway. Using something as primitive as a Garmin 195 that leaves bread
crumbs behind your route is useful to verify that your maneuvers actually
would have actually put you back on the runway.

 

 

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