[Oz-mooney] Life, Polio Vaccine, SV40, & Mooneys!

Sun Jan 4 13:56:18 PST 2009

Great thought. 

John, can you get this organised  this morning please...

Michael

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au
[mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Mark Peterson
Sent: Monday, 5 January 2009 7:41 AM
To: Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List
Subject: RE: [Oz-mooney] Life, Polio Vaccine, SV40, & Mooneys!

 You could convert the mooney mailing list to a forum level instrument,
which would formalize various threads  and allow discrimination between
aviation and friendly non aviation topics –its quite fun listening to the
life experience ( even non  aviation)    of the various member

Mark Peterson

  _____  

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au
[mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Keating
Sent: Sunday, 4 January 2009 12:56 AM
To: 'Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List'
Subject: RE: [Oz-mooney] Life, Polio Vaccine, SV40, & Mooneys!

Come on Peter, you are an active contributor to the list and your
contributions are always well thought out, pertinent to the discussion and
reflect your ability to get your message across for the betterment of
aviation ie the recent posts about Bankstown and the safety related issues
there. 

What I found most interesting about your post was the fact that you had a
history in bichem. A couple of years ahead of me, on the day after his
Graduation, a fellow joined one of the symphony orchestras as a violinist
and has never practised a day as a doctor ie he did not even do his
internship. The Krebs Cycle to the Cello is a similar leap I daresay! 

You cannot put those links on the list and expect a bunch of doctors to
refrain from commenting and just because those comments give a different
opinion of the article does not in anyway impugn you personally. I didn’t
even comment but having read the links I disagree with a number of
statements (not the facts) made and outcomes implied. That does not mean I
am correct though and I am sure we could have a great debate over a red but
it would not mean we would walk away with any less respect for each other
(unless you disagreed with me J )That does not mean I am sensitive, I am
just applying a critical scientific eye to it in exactly the same way you
would should I post something regarding musicians and or music.  Please also
bear in mind that we medicos are dealing with this stuff, ie vaccines, on a
daily basis and we come across some ‘interesting’ statements from out
patients...or at least their parents esp the ones related to Iridologists
and Naturopaths so we tend to go to war prepared you might say. 

Just to change the subject slightly, I have attached a photo which I feel
encapsulates how my LAME thinks about my Mooney as he goes to sleep each
night. It is 2MB though and may not get through the Keeper.

Michael 

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au
[mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Peter Rejto
Sent: Saturday, 3 January 2009 7:32 PM
To: Australian Mooney Pilots Assocation List
Subject: Re: [Oz-mooney] Life, Polio Vaccine, SV40, & Mooneys!

To any of you that I offended with this post, I apologize. It isn't Mooney
related, but then the discussion that led to this wasn't really either. The
mention of the vaccine triggered some personal memories that I ought to have
kept private. In no way do I subscribe to any sort of grand conspiracy
theory, and I used the word "coincidence." I did not personally draw any
conclusion, though I do have one. The fact that live SV40 was in the oral
polio vaccine is not in any dispute, nor are the findings of live SV40 in
certain human tumors. Whether the SV40 caused the tumors is disputed and
there is evidence to support a number of positions. I personally find this
interesting and I'm usually surprised that most people don't seem to know
anything about this. Certainly nobody intentionally put live SV40 in those
vaccines! But, obviously, had researchers known about the SV40 the vaccine
would not have been released...so an inadvertent mistake was made. I think
those are grounds for a reasonable discussion about the ramifications of
such. I certainly in no way meant to imply that the polio vaccine wasn't a
great advance towards the destruction and elimination of a horrid disease,
and I in no way impugn any other vaccine towards any other disease by these
comments. 

I think I am done commenting in this forum. There is certainly a lot of
sensitivity that I don't care to intrude upon any longer.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Nicholas Forgione <mailto:drnicki at iinet.net.au>  

To: Australian <mailto:oz-mooney at mooney.org.au>  Mooney Pilots Assocation
List 

Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:22 PM

Subject: Re: [Oz-mooney] Life, Polio Vaccine, SV40, & Mooneys!

This type of scaremongering does little to enhance the Mooney web site. May
I respectfully suggest that the point of view presented is yet another of
those who believe all in the concept of a universal conspiracy theory. For
the facts can I suggest
www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/archive/polio_and_cancer.htm.
<http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/archive/polio_and_cancer.htm.%20
>    

 To make this Mooney related, I suggest we all keep flying our Mooneys
before  'they' cpme and get us.

Nick Forgione

On 03/01/2009, at 9:54 AM, Peter Rejto wrote: 

My comment here is only tangentially related to the discussion at hand, but
since Skip has mentioned the oral polio vaccine I thought I might pipe in
with a story.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Nicholas Forgione <mailto:drnicki at iinet.net.au>  

To: Australian <mailto:oz-mooney at mooney.org.au>  Mooney Pilots Assocation
List 

Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:22 PM

Subject: Re: [Oz-mooney] Life, Polio Vaccine, SV40, & Mooneys!

This type of scaremongering does little to enhance the Mooney web site. May
I respectfully suggest that the point of view presented is yet another of
those who believe all in the concept of a universal conspiracy theory. For
the facts can I suggest
www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/archive/polio_and_cancer.htm.
<http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/archive/polio_and_cancer.htm.%20
>    

 To make this Mooney related, I suggest we all keep flying our Mooneys
before  'they' cpme and get us.

Nick Forgione

On 03/01/2009, at 9:54 AM, Peter Rejto wrote: 

My comment here is only tangentially related to the discussion at hand, but
since Skip has mentioned the oral polio vaccine I thought I might pipe in
with a story.

Back in another life I was a graduate student at Berkeley in Biochemistry
(early 70s). One of my first assignments was to develop a new purification
technique for influenza virus (which I did), but I asked my research
director about the dangers. He said not to worry as the virus was
"attenuated", but if I was concerned to work in the vacuum hood. I did, as
did my colleagues...but a week later we were all quite sick with flu. If it
was attenuated I would't have wanted to meet the real thing! After some
months at this a new assignment came along.....something to do with SV40
(simian virus 40) which "only affects monkeys!" Shortly thereafter I left
Berkeley to follow the music career path and never did work with SV40.
Imagine my surprise when about 10 years later I picked up an article in a
biochem journal that spoke about the first "in vitro cell transformation of
human cells by SV40" i.e., if you injected the DNA of SV40 into human cells
in lab conditions you could change them into cancer cells. Now it turns out
that the oral polio vaccine was contaminated by live SV40 (which I
understand looks just like the polio virus under an electron microscope),
and this was not known until some time later. About 6 years ago I just
happened to spy a New York Times article speaking about the strange
coincidence of an increase in lymphoma cases, and that a certain number of
these cases showed the presence of SV40. I was utterly shocked to read this
and have always wondered why there wasn't more public discussion of this
"coincidence!"

Read here for even more revelations about SV40: www.sv40foundation.org

and here: www.informedchoice.info/polio.html

    "It has taken, for instance, approximately forty years for the
scientific community to finally acknowledge that we have a serious problem
as a result of the contamination of polio vaccines with simian virus 40
(SV40) in the late 1950s-early 1960s. There has been previous evidence of
some human brain and other tumors containing this virus (32, 33), but the
medical community has been slow to acknowledge a definitive link between
SV40 and cancer in humans. However, two independent research teams have
recently found this virus present in 43% of cases of non-Hodgkins lymphoma
(34, 35). Another study found it present in 36% of brain tumors, 16% of
healthy blood cell samples, and 22% of healthy semen samples (36). And
strangely, SV40 has now been found to infect children (37). Considering that
children of this era, are not supposed to be receiving the virus via the
vaccine contamination route, this would therefore imply that SV40 is being
transmitted from one human to another, in ways not previously known."

To make this Mooney related, I suggest we all fly our Mooneys while we still
can!

----- Original Message -----

From: Skip Hodgson <mailto:skiphod at ozemail.com.au> 

To: Australian <mailto:oz-mooney at mooney.org.au>  Mooney Pilots Assocation
List

Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:15 AM

Subject: Re: [Oz-mooney] More on "James Cook" VH-TJA

Just to bring this all back to our common interest in Mooneys you could note
that "Horrie Miller" of MacRobertson Miller Airways fame had a daughter
named Robin Miller otherwise known as "Sugar Bird Lady".  The memorial to
this nurse and her Mooney at Jandakot airport reminds us of her aviation
legend and her work in distributing Sabin polio vaccine (on sugar cubes) to
Aboriginal children at remote communities in outback Australia.

Skip

Michael Keating wrote: 

In my former life as a Travel Agent, pre-medicine, the industry nickname for
Mac Robertson Miller Airways or MMA was Mickey Mouse Airlines.

M

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au
[mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Tim Hamilton
Sent: Saturday, 3 January 2009 7:19 AM
To: AMPA
Subject: RE: [Oz-mooney] More on "James Cook" VH-TJA

Yerrr Michael TAA really worked their first Boeing-727   T J A

but the one aircraft I know was worked even harder was MacRobertsom Millier
Airlines first Fokker F-27 Friendship, VH-MMS "Swan"

Details follow - pic attached

Arrived Perth at conclusion of delivery flight as 'VH-TFL' - December 16,
1959

Flight crew: Capts A. Whitham (MMA Chief Pilot), S. Goddard, J. Murray;
Navigator L. Thrift

Delivered in full Mac.Robertson Miller Airlines 'Jetstream' livery

Entered onto Australian Aircraft Register as VH-MMS - December 24, 1959

Registered to Mac.Robertson Miller Airlines Ltd

Operated promotional flight Perth-Port Headland-Perth - December 28, 1959

Aircraft named 'Swan' by Mrs Shane Paltridge - December 28, 1959

Operated its first revenue service Perth-Broome-Port Headland-Derby -
December 31, 1959

Flight crew: Capts S. Goddard, K. Beer; F/O N. Dorrington

Aircraft was nicknamed 'The Black Duck' & later 'The Supersonic Duck' by
flight crews

It was first Friendship in the world to reach 10,000 hours

Withdrawn from service for overhaul - September 3 to October 30, 1962

First Friendship in the world to achieve 20,000 hours

Ownership transferred to Ansett Transport Industries - June 8, 1969

Registered to Ansett Transport Industries (Operations) Pty Ltd - September
29, 1969

Withdrawn from M.M.A. service having flown 41,048 hours - January 1972

Transferred to Airlines of South Australia - January 1972

Transferred to Ansett Airlines of Australia - February 1972

Leased to M.M.A. to cover maintenance of F.28s - July 8 to August 5, 1977

Ferried Perth-Adelaide on return to Airlines of South Australia - August 6,
1977

Leased to Ansett Airlines of New South Wales - May 26, 1979 to March 1, 1980

Operated inaugural Air N.S.W. Sydney-Albury-Melbourne service - May 4, 1983

Logged the highest hours flown by any Australian registered Friendship -
April 1984

Had flown 62,817 hours with 57,170 cycles

Withdrawn from service for repainting into new Ansett 'Southern Cross'
livery - November 1984

Operated its final Ansett service WX865 Sydney-Canberra-Melbourne (Capt L.
Campbell) - October 19, 1987

Flown to Melbourne's Essendon Airport and stored - 69,982 hours / 64,393
cycles

Estimated to have carried 1,854, 518 passengers during its career

Flown Essendon-Tullamarine for storage - January 25, 1989

Leased to Air Cruising for a Pacific Islands tour - May 6 - 22, 1991

Cancelled from Australian Aircraft Register - December 6, 1991

Sold to Transpacific Enterprises Inc - December 13, 1991

Departed Melbourne on delivery flight to Peru as OB-1454 in an an all-white
livery - December 13, 1991

Ferry route: Melboure-Alice
Springs-Broome-Denpasar-Seoul-Bangkok-Calcutta-Delhi-Karachi-

Bahrain-Jeddah-Cairo-Athens-Milano-Preswick-Reykjavik-Sondrestromfjord-Goose
Bay-

Philadelphia-Miami-Panama City-Guayaquil-Lima

Arrived Lima, Peru at conclusion of delivery flight - December 24, 1991

Flight crew: Capt D. Alidga; F/O M. Perochena (son of owner); Engineer J.
Falconi

Leased to Expresso Aero SA - December 31, 1991 to February 23, 1994

Aircraft was named 'Salcantay'

Returned to Transpacific Enterprises Inc - October 1993

Ferried to Santiago, Chile for storage - August 3, 1994

Cannibalised for parts - but still relatively intact as of 2003

Had flown 72,020 hours and 69,478 cycles

Aircraft such as this and TJA need to be part of an Australian aviation
museum !!!!

  _____  

From: mgkeating at bigpond.com
To: oz-mooney at mooney.org.au
Subject: RE: [Oz-mooney] More on "James Cook" VH-TJA
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 10:44:43 +1000

Thanks Tim,

Maybe I don’t need to worry about MYV having flown 2700 hrs in 30 yrs
compared to TJA with 37,000 hrs...

Michael

From: oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au
[mailto:oz-mooney-bounces at mooney.org.au] On Behalf Of Tim Hamilton
Sent: Thursday, 1 January 2009 7:06 AM
To: AMPA
Subject: [Oz-mooney] More on "James Cook" VH-TJA

VH-TJA. Boeing 727-76

  _____  

Construction completed at Boeing's Renton plant - July 24, 1964

First flown - August 25, 1964

Entered onto the Australian Aircraft Register as VH-TJA - September 1, 1964

Arrived Melbourne at conclusion of delivery flight - October 16, 1964

Delivery route: Seattle-San Francisco-Honolulu-Canton Island-Nadi

Flight crew: Capt. D. A. Winch, Capt. K. J. Fox

Aircraft was named 'James Cook'

Entered T.A.A. service as TN534 Melbourne-Sydney - November 2, 1964

Involved in collision with CP Air DC-8 on take-off from Sydney Airport -
January 29, 1971

Repaired and returned to service - April 10, 1971

Operated its final Trans-Australia revenue service - February 14, 1976

Withdrawn from use and stored at Melbourne's Tullamarine Airport

Had flown 37,643 hours and 28,013 cycles

Sold to International Air Leases - October 7, 1976

Departed Melbourne on delivery flight - November 11, 1976

Cancelled from the Australian Aircraft Register - November 19, 1976

Leased to Air Florida - becoming N91891 - December 13, 1976

Aircraft was reregistered N40AF - January 16, 1977

Returned to International Air Leases - July 1977

Sold to Continental Airlines - becoming N18480 - July 19, 1977

Was withdrawn from service and stored at Mojave - July 19, 1991

Aircraft scrapped - August 1993

Cancelled from the U.S. Aircraft Register - October 8, 1996

  _____  

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  _____  

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